Devin (00:03.892)
Darren, welcome to the show. It's great to have you. How are you, sir?

darin davis (00:06.832)
Hello, David. Long time no talk to you. I'm glad we got connected here.

Devin (00:11.22)
Yeah, I was glad to see on the calendar and it has been a while. So looking forward to catching up, finding out what's new in your neck of the woods. And for the audience here that maybe has not connected with you before, love to just kind of get some background on you. And then always like to find out how people got into this real estate game to start with.

darin davis (00:31.984)
Sure, well it's not terribly exciting, but it was a great journey that's still going. I've been in the Austin, Texas metro area for the last 22, 23 years, and Texas is home. So I was out in California, West Coast, East Coast, and decided to come back home, get married, have kids, be around the family and all that. But...

Literally, I started started doing some simple stuff, some some single family stuff. And then it was a fourplex and then it was strip center. And then it was a mini storage. And the next thing I knew, you know, seven, eight years later, I did we were doing our first multifamily project, which was in 2009, 10 range. And if you ever wanted to start a development project in 2008 or nine, I would warn you against it. But our backs were up against the wall and we figured out because, you know, that

Devin (01:12.948)
Right.

darin davis (01:26.242)
That was the great financial crisis. And there was no bank lending. There was no equity. There was no nothing. But we just kind of worked our way through it. And then I realized that multifamily, I loved everything about it. I loved the demand. I loved the debt. I loved everything that it was doing for the size and stuck with multifamily. And we've been doing multifamily for the last.

Gosh, coming up on 14 years now.

Devin (01:58.036)
Fantastic. How much of that has been, and I've followed you guys, but from a development perspective versus kind of buying something in place, maybe there's a renovation component, what's been the mix for you guys on that?

darin davis (01:59.056)
Thank you.

darin davis (02:09.552)
Yeah, I'm gonna tell you the story and a lot of you guys will get this. If we all remember 2012 to 2018, everybody was getting into the space. I mean, money was cheap, syndications were starting. We went into a couple of acquisitions for rehab, you know, class B, B plus, A minus. There would be 30, 35, 40, you know, offers on the deal. And we, you know,

Devin (02:38.836)
Right.

darin davis (02:39.458)
And we were just going, this is nuts. How do we differentiate ourselves out of this group? Well, Tom and I thought, well, we're just older. We have more experience. Well, whatever. It didn't work that way. But what we opted to do, we started looking at some of the data for net migration and jobs and all that. And we realized that there was still a huge under supply of housing.

So we pivoted over to the development side. Now we're not developers and we never tried to be, we can co -develop, but we became an equity source for developers. And we didn't go with the really large guys, you know, let's Endeavor, Trammell Crowe, some of the big names, but a lot of the smaller regional guys, guys that were doing three or four projects a year and needed, you know, some resources to equity. We partnered with a handful of those guys and we stuck with them. We didn't, we weren't chasing.

Devin (03:23.156)
Sure.

darin davis (03:34.53)
you know, just returns and we're just chasing a deal. We picked guys that we knew had been in the business for a while. They could actually create a pipeline of opportunity and we opted to go through the development stage. And I think our whole goal originally was to develop and then acquire that from that merchant builder, that developer, and then we kept it for cashflow. But as we all know, when cap rates went from five and a half to five to four and a half to four, there was just a little

a lot of money on the table. So we ended up selling virtually everything we had all the way up until about two and a half years ago. So, but you know, so we really are a, I still am today. We are a, we're an equity source for developers. But as we've matured, we've grown into a semi co -development and maybe about half the time we're a co -GP, which, and we've earned it. We don't, we aren't just giving it, but we've sourced deals and.

Devin (04:12.66)
Wow.

darin davis (04:33.712)
and brought in developers and GCs. So we do, but primarily multifamily, I mean, primarily, almost exclusively multifamily and primarily LP equity.

Devin (04:44.18)
Right, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Is this all in and around Austin Metro?

darin davis (04:48.688)
No, it's not, but it's Texas. We've got two projects in your backyard. We have five here in the Austin metro area, and we have two.

current up in the DFW area. And each one of them has their features and benefits. We still are very bullish on Texas in general. And we think there's a long runway there. And so we're staying focused here. But we live in Austin. We've got a lot of our network up in the DFW area. And we have a lot in the Houston area, too. So we're primarily in those. and we have one in San Antonio. Forgot about that. Yeah, and one in San Antonio.

Devin (05:14.452)
sure.

Devin (05:32.788)
Yeah, fantastic. What a great window to be developing and exiting kind of in the last couple of years.

darin davis (05:39.312)
I can't say we were the smartest guys on the blog, but we did. We were fortunate and our investors were fortunate. We did well. And again, I will tell you this, this is something I've learned over the last 20 years that is really, really hard to kind of grasp, especially when there's key moments in the decision -making process.

Devin (05:43.636)
Right.

darin davis (06:01.904)
There are a handful of assets that I wish I'd have held on to. And the reason why is that it is so hard to find a really good quality asset. It's not easy. And times like today and probably for the next five to 10 years, can't really predict much after five years from now, nor would I try. But getting a good asset that you can hold for a period of time and cashflow that and do that whole refinance and cashflow

it again, those are really hard to come by. And, but I also get it when you've got such a, a win on the table and there's, you know, you're getting a lot of money for your investors. So I, we never let our personal, you know, kind of agenda get in front of our investors. But I will tell you this for anybody that has control of a deal, think twice before you sell it, make sure it's the right thing to do because there's a handful of them. I'm just like, with my experience as a

I'd have given anything to hang on to that one and monetize it and just monetize that asset I'm still today learning man. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this And that's that's the only thing but other than that it's you know You know, I think going forward we're gonna probably try to work with our investors and set up our deals Where we hold them a little bit longer than you know, the three to four years?

Devin (07:25.076)
Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's the maximum value creation with that more patient time horizon. We're going to talk, and I'd like to talk about some of the changes in the debt markets and the capital stack. And we've actually got some supporting documentation I'm going to throw up on the screen in a little bit. But from your perspective, contrasting where we're at now, mid -year,

2024 with maybe what you saw back in 2008. I'd love to just kind of get your perspective on similarities, differences, that kind of thing.

darin davis (08:00.848)
Yeah, no, and you know, I remember about a little over a year ago, I had somebody ask me, I said, Are you worried about the market? And I calmly said, not really. And they said, why not?

And I said, I've already been in this rodeo two other times. And the first one, yeah, I was pretty nervous. The second one, I was nervous and scared. This one, I understand the data better. I understand how people react. I understand just what's happening in the economy far better than I did like in 2008 and nine. But I'll do a quick comparison. 2008 and nine were bad. I mean, that was a financial crisis. And what I saw coming out of that, and it's

And I got asked this question, this guy asked me one time, he goes, well, how did you underwrite that deal? I said, well, nobody underwrote anything back then. Everybody's back was against the law and you just figured it out. There was no underwriting, it was survival. And he said, really? I said, yeah, I mean, there was no underwriting, there was no money. There was nothing going on for a year and a half. But point being is,

What I saw in that market, there's some similarities to what we're seeing today, not near as deep, but as an example, in 2008, nine, when the market was kind of at its worst, the emotional component on a lot of people said, sit on your hands, do nothing.

Well, just like you hear from all the great investors, you know, you want to buy low and sell high. Well, we were at the lowest part of the market in 2008 and nine. And some of the more experienced people, people that are probably my age, you know, back then had had gone through similar issues in the 80s and 90s. And those guys started buying and they bought from 2010 to 2014 as much as they could at an incredible discount. Now,

darin davis (09:58.114)
Think about this in the multifamily world, all right? If we have, and let's talk about Texas, if we have a net migration coming to the state and we have job increases leading the nation, and then our housing pipeline stops. I mean, there was literally no construction in 2009 and 10, eight, nine, nine and 10. So let's say two and a half, three years. Well, that supply still kept coming. I mean, the migration still kept coming in.

Well, all of a sudden, when the spigot gets turned back on with the capital in 2010, 11, you saw like literally there was no supply and people couldn't build fast enough. They could not build fast enough. We had a project that came out of the ground in 2010 and we had that thing, 240 units, 240 units. We've leased that entire project in less than five months.

Devin (10:39.348)
Right.

darin davis (10:52.4)
and we average over a 6 % increase in rents over every year, year after year for a decade. All right.

Devin (11:00.756)
incredible.

darin davis (11:01.104)
And that's because the supply had dwindled so low and we were in the right spot at the right time. Now, think if I had done that three or four or five times instead of one time. All right. So what I see today, the cuts not near as deep, you know, in the in the multifamily or financial space right now, the the economics are better, the fundamentals are better. But right now we're we're in a low spot. And I don't know if we're at the lowest, but we're

Devin (11:12.98)
Right.

darin davis (11:31.01)
at the lowest. And I don't know if we're starting to come out of it. I think we'll know that probably beginning of next year. But I would really encourage people to put themselves in a position to be somebody that buys low and starts looking to invest and or acquire key real estate positions. And you know, next year in the next, I think 25 and 26 back half of 25 for sure. And 26 and 27 are going to be those years like we experienced.

Devin (11:38.132)
Right.

darin davis (12:00.914)
in 2011, 12, 13, and 14, you know, a decade ago.

Devin (12:06.708)
It makes a lot of sense following the data and seeing Antonio here. There's just the supply. Well, the new starts have just gone to zero. Right. So, you know, you fast forward 20 months, 24 months from that period. And you to your point, you continue to have the inbound migration and that pressure and no inventory being delivered in two years. You're in kind of a similar situation there. And we're seeing basis on stuff now where.

You're never going to get it all at one time. You're not going to get low rates and low prices on the acquisitions, right? But we're seeing some acquisition prices here that we just haven't seen in a long, long time. So just trying to figure out how to make the capital stack pencil, which I want to talk about capital stack. And you've got some perspective on this. I'm going to actually share my screen here.

darin davis (12:47.12)
Well, I'll tell you what, we saw one in our backyard a month ago and it was a large national builder, primarily in the Southwest.

darin davis (13:01.264)
Okay. Yeah.

Devin (13:04.02)
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna share my screen. I wanted to talk Darren a little bit about

the, you know, kind of the, the, the change here and the, the debt markets, how capital stacks are getting put together and just kind of explain to folks some of this. But I've, I've got a slide here that your team provided called the psychic, the cycle of market emotions. is, are you seeing that?

darin davis (13:25.552)
Yeah, yeah, this is a, I don't, I don't take.

full credit for this, but I think all of us have been through this at some point in our life, whether it's the stock market or whatever it is. But if you look at that, kind of where the emotional risk is, and I tell you what, I tell my kids this all the time because I believe in it, but I rarely, if ever, have made a good or great emotional decision. If I stick to the facts and if I step back and I look at the facts,

Devin (13:58.964)
Right.

darin davis (14:02.05)
the data and the facts and the numbers to get the emotion out of it. I'm far better off with my decision making. So, and it's hard sometimes, you know, because you haven't gone through something like this. But what I'm going to point out here, Devin, is that if you look at this, you know, the cycle of market emotions, you know, our maximum risk that we had, our financial risk was really about two years ago, two, two and a half years ago. And if you look to the late of this, you know, it says,

hey we were excited, everybody was smart, we're making a lot of money, cap rates are under four, you know, let's invest, you know, let's keep going, this gravy train is going to go for another decade. Well, we had already surpassed by three or four years kind of the cycle of, you know, the ups and downs, the wave of the commercial real estate, and just for the sheer fact that we are three or four years past the normal kind of, you know, upswing downswing had us concerned, and that's why we really looked to sell

everything that we had, you know, back to two and a half, three years ago. But if you look at this, you know, we've all been going through this kind of, we denied that interest rates were going to happen. We got fearful. And then we started getting into this like almost, you know, emotional depressed mode. And you're going, okay, this is hopeless. And a lot of people, you know, whether you're in the business or you're the investor, a lot of people just start giving up about a year and a half or two years ago, they weren't prepared for this.

But now I think is the guys that are still connected to the equity investing or acquisition, I think now is going to be the absolute best time to really get prepared to make that upswing. And I look at that over to the right and we says, where's the maximum financial opportunity? We're somewhere in the low part of that trough. And.

And it all, if you look at the data, I'm going to go back to, you know, net migration, Texas and Florida are number one and two, job creation nationally, Texas is one, Florida is number three, you know, and on just jobs, I think Texas and Florida represent 58 % of the new jobs. Texas is leading that one over Florida by a significant number, but we're somewhere in that bottom of the trough right there. And it doesn't feel great just yet.

darin davis (16:26.978)
But like I said, six months from now, I think we start trending up, at least 12 months we start trending up.

I think the supply is going to be absorbed in 2006 completely. We're going to have more demand and we'll talk about that I think in another slide. But I think getting ready in repeating those successful people from 2010, 11, 12, 13, 14 and getting ready to start doing some investing and acquisitions in another 12, 18 months, you're going to put yourself in a really good position.

And we'll talk about this a little bit later, I think. But there's a way to get in today in a very safe and secure way and get your money prepared for 12, 24 months from now. And we'll talk a little bit about that later. But we're there. The data says we're right there in that bottom of the trough. We don't know if we're to the left of the bottom or to the right of the bottom, but we're somewhere in that very bottom part. And we're going to start. We'll see a tick up here soon.

darin davis (17:37.264)
Devon, it looks like we lost the connection. Did we lose the connection?

Devin (17:40.916)
I got you back here. Yeah. Yeah. So nobody's going to precisely call the bottom, but you've got a lot of indicators that show that. And these cycles tend to last a finite amount of time and we've been in it for a while now. So I think it's good. And I encourage you, if you're, if you're listening, check out the video version of this so you can follow along with the content here. Well, let's talk about the evolution of the capital stack, Darren. I'm just kind of switching gears on the, on the presentation here, but.

darin davis (17:42.64)
Okay, good.

darin davis (18:09.296)
Yeah.

Devin (18:10.932)
For the last handful of years, we'd seen pretty high leverage, obviously low rates and lenders are comfortable coming pretty far up the capital stack on that senior debt position. And now it's a little bit different. Lenders are pulled back with their willingness to kind of proceeds max. And what has that changed for operators? What has that changed for limited partners?

darin davis (18:35.92)
Yeah, so this is a, I think this is a really good thing to understand and I wasn't aware as I should have been that.

that I hadn't really thought about it. But if you have been investing since 2012, you've probably never had a reason to even or think about a part of the capital stack is something that's called preferred equity. Because if you look to the left of this slide, I mean, from 2010, 11, 12 until 21 or 22, just a couple of years ago, a capital stack was pretty simple. The leverage was about 75 % and the equity was about

Devin (19:11.444)
I'm.

darin davis (19:14.242)
25 and money was cheap and you know, that's what we saw for well over a decade. Well, fast forward to, you know, two years ago and the capital stacks changed. Interest rates up, valuations down, rents flat and leverage low. And what that did is it brought the senior debt position down in how much they would lend. Well, the developers

going, wait a second, I can't afford to pay what the common equity wants, so I've got to figure out how to kind of re -architect the capital stack. And so what's happened is that they've come to us in a what's called preferred equity.

and at its core super simple understanding is just like it says, it's preferred and it is paid out in full capital and returns prior to the common equity. So you get your capital and your returns, part of the common equity and the common equity sits behind the preferred. Now the preferred equity has no upside. They get their flat, let's just say 12%. Okay, that's it. So there's no upside. You know, the preferred, I mean the common equity,

when they got in it, they were getting probably an 8 or 10 preferred return and then whatever upside for the waterfall. Well, this is just a sliver of capital that acts like a debt component. It's not really debt, but it acts like one. Now, the interesting thing here about what you're seeing right here, what's caused this is there's a lot of loan maturities that are coming on board in the next three to four to five years. All right.

Well, what's happened is developers have said, my gosh, my interest reserve has been eaten up by the floating rate. I started off at three and a half percent. Now I'm paying eight percent. I've had some cost overruns. I've had some lease ups. I haven't been as fast or is or hitting the numbers. So that's why we've been called in. And I tell people all the time, I go, look, guys, if you look at this capital stack and you're assured yourself a 12 percent return and your capital.

Devin (21:11.22)
Right.

darin davis (21:30.546)
before the common equity gets paid, why wouldn't you take that position and sit on the sideline earning 12 % waiting for next year or the next so that you could go in and pick up a deal at 20 % less replacement value or a deal that is far better price than anything you can do today? Because...

I mean, if you look at the common equity, we can't make anything pencil, you know, for common equity. And I look at this, I'm going, wow, I can get 12 % on a preferred equity deal on a project that's under construction or in lease up. Or I can take my chances with common equity and maybe get 10, 12%. But I look at it as I can get a greater return, more surety that I'll get that with the prefect equity than I can over the common equity. So we have...

Devin (21:57.524)
Sure. Yep.

darin davis (22:23.25)
pivoted and we are now those earlier on we talked about you know, we picked three or four really good development partners We are now supporting them with preferred equity and their guys have a pipeline guys. We know You know groups that have performed over and over again They just need what we call a little little rescue capital to get them through the next, you know year to two years

Devin (22:48.148)
Yeah, makes a lot of sense and it's a good position to be in. If you're senior debt is lower proceeds like I mentioned and you're sitting right on top of that, makes a lot of sense. And I think we've talked about some of the maturities here and you've got another piece of collateral here talking about this wall of loan maturities that's kind of driving some of this new preferred.

darin davis (23:09.136)
Yeah, and I tell you.

Yeah, this what's interesting here too is that I have another couple of slides that I do some presentations for some groups, but nationally, Texas and Florida, they all will have a much higher demand than they will have supply in 2026. Right. So but what's happening here, if you see 2024, 25 and 26, and we've circled the blue there, that is the loan.

on multifamily that are coming due. Now most of these construction loans, we're working with, you know, Class A primary, you know, garden. We're not doing anything crazy. We're not doing rehabs. We're not getting outside of our wheelhouse.

things are either, you know, 50 % through construction or in lease, somewhere where we're not starting anything new, but we're not doing an acquisition. But what we're doing here is that if you look at all of these, these loans are all maturing and what's happening to these guys have a, typically a three year construction loan with two one year options. Well, these loans are now maturing and we're getting into year four and five.

going through the next three years and these guys are needing help to get over the goal line and that's what we're coming in. So that wall of maturity right there.

darin davis (24:39.984)
are big opportunities for us. Okay. I mean, not only for the prefect equity, but think about this. I mean, and I shared this with the guy the other day. I said, you know what? I go, it's kind of like we've got front row seats to the basketball game, the NBA championship, my Dallas Mavericks, right? Those guys better not mess it up. But we're sitting there watching the asset. We get to see the asset management. We get to see the property management. We get to see all the financials and we're getting paid to do it.

Devin (24:56.852)
Right.

darin davis (25:10.128)
And if it's an asset we like, then we're right in the best position to make that acquisition two years from now. And we're putting ourselves, and I said to another guy, it's like a Trojan horse with an olive branch. We're coming right into the heart of the project, and we're getting paid to look at it and watch it and see how it performs. And if we want to take it over, we do. Now, we don't have to, and nor does any of our preferred equity have to go with us if we choose that.

Devin (25:24.18)
Right.

darin davis (25:38.512)
but you're there and you get to see the asset and you're helping the sponsor and you're helping your investors and maybe it rolls up into an acquisition.

Devin (25:48.532)
Yeah, you're getting a two year look ahead of an acquisition, which is kind of a set of x -ray glasses you wish you had on other outright acquisitions. Right. Yep. Yeah, the supply issues can be very interesting to see in 2026. Same thing you saw, we saw a decade ago, right, where you just had this halt and starts and that'll manifest itself here in a couple of years and the demand from all...

darin davis (25:55.824)
yeah, and you're getting paid to watch it.

Devin (26:18.004)
Data that we can see is not going anywhere in Texas.

darin davis (26:20.624)
Yeah, well, we just I'm sure Houston is similar. We don't track Houston in your backyard as much as we track our own right here in Austin, just because we get the information all the time. But our construction starts are down 72 % year over year. Now, were we a little inflated a year ago? Yeah, because we're permits done two years ago. Okay, cut it in half. Okay, so say 35 % or 36.

Devin (26:30.132)
Yeah. Yep.

Devin (26:41.748)
Sure. Sure.

Right. Yeah.

darin davis (26:48.08)
That's that's massive. And if that that tells you anything, we're going to absorb everything that's been built in the last two or three years. We're not starting anything last year, this year and probably most of next year. So you're going to have this same thing I went through in 2008, nine. You know, we're going to have this 24 to 36 month gap where construction was just virtually nothing. And and it's going to invert and all of a sudden it's going to do the hockey stick. And, you know, everybody that

is patient and just kind of keeps their capital ready, keeps it in short term investments like a preferred equity or whatever they do short term. I wouldn't put anything more than two or three years right now. And just get ready for 26, 27, 28. There's gonna be some banner opportunities.

Devin (27:29.716)
Brian.

Devin (27:35.828)
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Very interesting. And we've seen these patterns before. Not a fair question, but what do you think about the second half of the year here? You know, you're watching the Fed, watching an election year. What are you guys talking about in the office for back half of 24 here?

darin davis (27:49.904)
Yeah, well, I can tell you it's the same thing I was talking about just about a year ago. I was telling my team and I get calls from a lot of my investors, like, hey, what's going on? What do you think? But.

I said this a year ago, if we get any interest rate reduction, it won't move the needle. Now, if we get 150 basis points, that, but you know, I think we were projecting 75 by the end of the year.

Devin (28:20.244)
Right.

darin davis (28:20.528)
And I just told my guys ago that's not going to move the needle. I said the needle doesn't really start moving on this until the leverage becomes more normalized on that and the demand, the absorption is taken down, which is going to take two years. All right. So you're going to have to have three or four things happen, not one. I may not to, you know, you're going to have because we have like five things going on right now that are against us, you know, that are kind of putting pressure on us.

Devin (28:48.276)
Yep, a lot of headwinds.

darin davis (28:50.544)
We got to get rid of three or four of those before we start seeing anything.

Again, I said just a second ago, don't go anything long term. If you can get your cash in something that's short term and pretty secure, I like that. We're not doing any common equity deals right now, zero, none. We don't need to, don't want to, they don't pencil. But the pre -equity deals do and we're really getting ready. We're ramping up for the back half of next year. Now, as far as the election goes, I...

I used to care and I still care, you know, personally, but business wise, you've got to be, you have to be flexible and you've got to be willing to change. You know, if you try to just cram your way into the same thing 24 seven, your way is not going to be the way you've got to be prepared. Like, like we did, we pivoted to preferred equity.

Devin (29:29.556)
Sure. Yeah.

darin davis (29:53.424)
There was a high demand. We didn't say, no, we're a common equity shop and we only do this. And we said, no, no, no, no, we're going to, we're going to really pivot and support the need that's out there in the market and educate our investors why this is a good thing. And this isn't just, you know, Hey, we stuck our finger in there and decided to pick something. I mean, there's some magic to our madness and there's a lot of data behind it too. So, you know, the election depending.

Devin (30:13.588)
Sure.

darin davis (30:23.12)
You know, if the Republicans win, probably we'll have some, you know, favorable climate for business. I don't know how much, how soon. If the Democrats win, I think it's going to be a little bit more of a longer struggle. But either way, you can't change at our level what's going on in Congress and the Fed. You just can't do it. So you figure out the rules that you can, I can play by those rules and play hard.

Devin (30:53.332)
Yeah, yeah, that ability to adapt to these macro circumstance. I think it's the hallmark of a good good operator. Well, Darren, this has been great. I appreciate your insights. I appreciate how you guys have pivoted and you're focusing on now and doing some education for folks here. If somebody listening wants to connect with you guys, learn what you're up to. Where do we send them?

darin davis (31:15.888)
Heck yeah, I love it when people call me. So yeah, I'm going to, you know who Carl Roeve is talking about politics and elections, you know, never have, he's a tech, he's an Austin, Texas guy. Yeah. You should know that. Don't you love it when he gets on his little whiteboard and he scribbles out everything right here. So you see it. So I've started using my daughter's pink whiteboard. Okay. Yeah. So club capital dot co club capital dot co.

Devin (31:23.316)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he is.

Devin (31:34.324)
There it is.

I was going to say, yeah, nice choice.

darin davis (31:45.872)
And I'll tell you what, if you go there, we have a, on our resources, we have a Pref Equity 101. It goes through kind of the top 10 things and understanding that, which I think are just key to understanding what Pref Equity is and the value that it has and where it is in the capital stack and the importance of it.

Devin (31:56.82)
Nice.

darin davis (32:08.496)
and there's some other stuff there. You know, I, I'm still a big proponent on, you know, finding two or three really good sponsors and sticking with those guys, and not chasing, not being, you know, chasing a return or chasing just a deal, you know, establish a relationship. So there's some information on that, but,

We've got a lot of good content on there. You know, I, I, Devin, I love what you do. I guess we met, I was gonna say five or six years ago, give or take. And I think you guys have done a fabulous job on the LP education, the opportunities, keep going. Next time we do this, I'll tell you a story why it is so incredibly important.

Devin (32:36.628)
Yeah.

darin davis (32:52.272)
to be establishing a pipeline of cash flow. I've got a personal story to save my life because we started this back in 2002. And it absolutely.

If we had not started building cashflow, long -term cashflow, and you can build it through other things other than real estate, but we just, you and I chose real estate for a lot of various reasons, but it's incredibly powerful what it can do for you. And if you never go through a life crisis, you know, and you just have it, it's the greatest thing that will ever happen to you. So, and I tell people is cash King or is cashflow King. So, yeah, I like one. And I think.

Devin (33:16.052)
Sure. Yep.

Devin (33:36.316)
yeah, yeah, recurring cashflow. Yep.

darin davis (33:38.962)
I pick cash flow.

Devin (33:42.324)
Yep, recurring cash flows. Beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. Well, Darren, thank you so much. It was great to catch up. Love to see what you guys are doing and encourage people to check it out. If you're listening, you can go to the show notes and click through to the link there. And also got the video here and you guys have additional educational content. So thank you. You know, I wish you guys a second. Yeah, me too.

darin davis (34:00.944)
Yeah, I enjoyed it. Good to see you again. I'm going to Houston. You're going to feed me if I come down to Houston soon? that's right. You're not in Houston. That's right. I got my, that's right.

Devin (34:07.54)
Yeah, we're actually in San Antonio, but man, we got some we got some good barbecue down here.

Good Mexican food. So yeah, we'd love to host you. We're right down the road, man. But we'll sync up over, you know. Yeah, yeah. So, well, good. All right, Darren, we'll see you. Take care.

darin davis (34:18.992)
Yeah and I'll show you our San Antonio practice. How about that? Okay hey thanks Devon. Appreciate it.

Bye bye.