DJE Texas (00:02.414)
Welcome to the DJ podcast where you will learn about real estate investing from real life examples. Here's your host, Devon Elder.

DJE Texas (00:16.44)
Hello and welcome to the show. Thanks for joining. My guest is my friend Aaron Katz out of the DFW area. He's been an apartment investor since 2011, bought his first deal in 2012. And so we just talked through his whole journey. It's actually his first time on the podcast. I've known Aaron for a number of years now. I'm just kind of running in similar circles, but he's done a lot of apartment deals, a lot of full cycle deals, nine full cycle deals.

they're continuing to buy deals in 2024. And so we just talked through how he got into the business, some of his background that helped him be a successful sponsor. I think probably his values and his approach is probably one of the things that stood out for me as a reason that he's stood the test of time in this business and has a, has a slow and steady conservative approach to doing this business. So great conversation talking all the way from his first deal to, uh,

how he's working with partners, how he was working with investors, a current deal that they just closed a couple of weeks ago in this current environment, Outlook for 2024, all the things, talk and shop, Texas multifamily. So I enjoyed my conversation with Aaron Katz. I think you will too. This episode is brought to you by DJE Texas Management Group, a San Antonio, Texas based real estate investment firm with a track record of transacting on several hundred million dollars of multifamily.

land and industrial deals throughout Texas. EJE has been in business for over a decade and is approaching 100 team members in San Antonio. To learn more about DJE, visit djetexas .com or the link in the show notes of this episode. This episode is also brought to you by apartmenteducators .com, a complete ecosystem for professionals to learn how to find, finance and operate large multifamily properties for profit.

can get started with a free mini course and learn more at apartmenteducators .com or visit the link in the notes. Aaron, hey, it's great to see you. Welcome to the show. How are you? Hey, Devin. Great. Thanks for having me in. Awesome to catch up and talk. Yeah. I look forward to catching up. Couple of Texas multifamily guys, um, talking shop here. So let's get into it first for the audience here. Maybe if somebody hasn't connected with you, I mean, you're out there and you've been.

DJE Texas (02:40.654)
do multifamily deals for a long time. So a lot of people know you, but for the folks that haven't connected with you, how'd you get into this, this real estate game? Wow. I came into the multifamily business back in 2011 and it just came about being a voracious reader over the years and always having had my eye on real estate investing, but not exactly knowing how to approach it or how to come in, looked at a bunch of the different models.

that for whatever reason, just necessarily weren't right for me. And it was in 2011 that I really came upon the, the multifamily model. And I have a small business ownership background, sales marketing background. I had a skillset that I thought would translate over very well to the multifamily business. What I lacked was the industry specific knowledge around multifamily.

But knowing that a great business model is a great business model felt that I could bring my background in. So I sought to, to find mentors and, um, that's what I did back in 2011. I found some mentors that had done successfully in the business, what I wanted to do and got plugged in. And I've been in the multifamily industry now. I did my first syndication deal in 2012 and I like to call myself a slow and steady deal sponsor.

Um, I see a lot of people come into the business and some do it quite successfully. So this is no knock, but I see other people come in and they want to do a certain number of doors in sometimes an unrealistic, uh, unrealistically short period of time. And, um, sometimes having to do a deal and getting greedy. That was really never my model. I kind of saw people and learned that people in the business that were 78 years old, they'd been lifetime apartment investors and over the years in a master portfolio.

of 10 ,000 doors after being in the industry for 20 or 30 years. And I kind of thought that's my model. I want to do like a deal or two a year, provide great returns to my investors, stay focused, not get shiny object syndrome, not look at apartment investing today, and then look at something else tomorrow. Maybe sometimes to my own detriment, maybe not, but I just decided that I'm going to ride the ebbs and flow of the apartment business, stay on top of the changes.

DJE Texas (05:03.566)
and just become one of those career apartment investors. So over the years, I've done 14 deals as a general partner and have passively invested in another 18, so 32 projects total. And looking to continue with that clip of doing the right deals with the right people at the pace of about one to two a year. Yeah, that's perfect. There's so much good stuff in there and I appreciate you sharing it. I think especially in the last few years, we saw...

a lot of emphasis on the acquisitions and the capital raising, which is necessary, but operations is 99 % of the life cycle of the deal. So you got to have that too. I wanted to go back to kind of your background in sales. My jobs out of college were in sales just kind of by default. I was looking to make more money and it seemed like a fit. And looking back, that was really a big deal.

a blessing, just pivotal to be able to kind of get that high pressure sales quota and just have to kind of develop those skills. I do you, of all the skills that we can have in this business, whether it's really getting nerdy with an Excel sheet or sales, I mean, what do you think is kind of the primary skill to do this business? In terms of looking at it from communicating with people? Well, I think it just, hey, you want to go out and send it, you know, you want to go out and run a deal.

Do you think there's a particular skill set that is kind of most important to go out and do that? I think it's relationship building, whether it's building relationships with the investors that are going to look at me as a potential deal sponsor and a place to put their hard earned money to work and trust in me and my partners to guide the process of their investment over a multi -year period, or whether it's...

talking with brokers or vendors or property management companies. I think it's the ability just to be able to sit down with people and talk to people and communicate openly and honestly and transparency in a fair and respectful way and to treat people with kindness, to be firm where necessary and just to be able to really...

DJE Texas (07:21.39)
communicate with people. I'm thinking about sales and I'm thinking when I was young and there's early sales jobs, I think Devin that I kind of had to put it on when I was young. It was almost like showtime. Like you said, high pressure quotas and the sale. I worked on sales floors and they were hard commission sales floors where if I didn't sell, I didn't make, there was no base below it. So I had to, I had to sell to, to live. And, and that was a great high pressure environment. But I think as I grew older,

that I didn't really have to put it on anymore. The ability just to have a conversation with somebody and be honest, but yet still be persuasive and to communicate enthusiasm. I think it just kind of flows through me naturally now. And so I think communication is definitely key. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. It's interesting how I spent some time in sales at various companies and then.

got into real estate and a few years later got into multifamily. And I really don't think of it as selling. This is like, hey, this is what we're doing. I'm putting capital. If you'd like to come along, that's great. I've actually kind of got a joke that I, we have a team now for investor relations, but when I was raising a lot of capital, I would make people ask me. I would never ask them. So I've got neighbors that I've known for years that know what I do and I've never asked them to invest.

just on that principle, almost kind of as a test. And then I've got neighbors that have millions of dollars in our deals with us. So because they asked and they were interested, but it's very different than any kind of sales I've done. It's really a partnership opportunity and there's definitely a different approach to it. Absolutely. I'm never going to try to...

sell somebody something that they're not interested in. And very much like you, I have friends and family that have now come in and invested with me, but it wasn't until my third or fourth deal, everybody kind of just followed me. Then they saw a track record of success. They heard and saw what I was doing and then they got interested. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's smart. You know, that's smart. And my database, I've built a database of over 1300 active apartment investors over the years. And there are people that I met,

DJE Texas (09:38.446)
in and around apartment investing circles. So they already believed in multifamily as a great investment vehicle. And I just really had to have the ability to sit down with them and show them why I could be a good steward of their money and a good leader of any project that they chose to invest in. Right. And somebody that would have investors interests at heart. I've always tried to align my interests in my projects with those of my investors to where I win.

If my investors win, then I win. And I'm not winning when my investors don't win. I know there's a lot of other structures out there with a lot of other sponsors, but I'm always thinking about putting my investors first and I want us to win together. Yeah. I saw something, I don't remember where, but the question for the sponsor was, if this goes south, how much do you lose? Does the sponsor lose? Right. I think it's a good question. It's a good question.

Can we talk about the first deal? I think, you know, you didn't, sounds like you didn't mess around with flipping 50 houses. You didn't do short -term rentals and maybe you did, but it seems like from what I know of your story that you didn't take the, do a bunch of small deals and then, and then go into multifamily was, was, was your first multifamily deal, your first real estate transaction. It was other than the personal homes I've owned. Sure. I never did anything with single family.

I came in, I very quickly defined the criteria once I'd found a mentoring organization that I was going to do a 60 to 100 unit deal here in the Dallas Fort Worth area, which is my home background. Yep. And, um, I, but I, I gave myself six months just to soak up education for, I was going to actively get out there and start looking. But in the meantime, um, I was going to the mentoring organization that I was part of at that time and I was meeting a lot of people.

And I was exchanging information with them and I was setting up meetings with them all across Dallas, Fort Worth, just kind of on a get to know, just like you and I sitting here today and having a conversation. But then we would talk a little bit of shop and I would outline to them. The vision for my first deal hadn't even started looking for the property, but I'd already defined my criteria. And I kind of had an idea of what that property was going to look like. So when I would meet people at Starbucks all around DFW or having lunch with them, probably.

DJE Texas (12:02.606)
a couple hundred meetings. I mean, a lot of meetings almost every single day over those first six months, I would say at the end of getting to know them, this is the type of project that I'm going to do. And when I land a project that meets this criteria, can I call on you for a potential investment? And having sat down with them and established a rapport, I got mostly yeses. So then when I did get out there and land a 90 unit deal in Arlington, Texas, which was my first syndication deal,

in 2012, then the money came very quickly behind it. And of course, in those days, we were buying C -class deals. I bought that deal at 19K a door basis back in 2012. So I was able to raise $750 ,000 from 12 investors to get that first deal done back then. That's great. That's such a textbook, you know, a dozen investors. It's a

Proper true syndication, but it's not 100. A 90 -unit deal, look, that's a lot of doors. But in the multifamily game, in the large multifamily space, it's on the smaller side and something you could wrap your head around. And I held that deal. We held that deal for about three years, averaged right at about 10 % cash flow annually, distributed to investors.

And it was kind of a textbook deal. We doubled our money in about three years and a month in that project. Perfect. Which is always the goal to get in and achieve our projection in a five -year hold or hopefully less. Over the years, I've had nine full cycle deals. The average return to investors on those deals is a little greater than 100 % just to tick over in an average hold period of 3 .5 years, which is greater than a 28 % average annualized return.

Probably what I'm maybe most proud of is that I just closed on a deal the other day. It's a 195 unit two property portfolio here in the, in Bedford and Ullis in the DFW mid city. So we're just getting going with that one. But the four other deals that I bought in the last couple of years and bought cautiously with partners, given the climate and environment we're in, those deals are operationally strong.

DJE Texas (14:26.51)
And we're going to be able to get out to the other side. And I believe, hopefully hit or maybe eventually eclipse our investors returns. So I'm most proud of that. My deals are not some of the stories of struggling deals. And we've been able to come through, haven't even had a capital call to investors. Just trying to look after and protect investors interest and.

and carry through and get through the headwinds over the next year or two and hopefully come out the other side. But I'm feeling really positive. So I'm probably most proud of that. Yeah. Well, congratulations on the new closing, but congratulations on getting through, I think the last couple of years when all these rate hikes started and you started hearing survive until 25 in real estate circles. And that seems to be about what it's going to look like, right? And kind of hold on. And so we told our team, you know, beat the drum all last year. Hey,

Surviving making it through is a win. You know, we haven't done a capital call. We don't want to. We pause some distributions, but we're going to get through the other side and and we'll be fine. But it's a lot of headwinds and so that's no fun to just instead of being on offense to say, well, we're going to play some defense and get through. But that's kind of always been the thesis in multifamily is we're looking at a five year hold. If we hit a rough patch in there for 18 months, 24 months, you know, then we continue to hold right?

Sure. I look at the deals in totality at the end of the day. That's right. And I'm going to base the success of a deal on the entire game, right? A football game is not just the first quarter or the second quarter. It's the four quarters and what's the score at the end of the game. With that being said though, even with the headwinds that we're facing now, I'm very bullish now about buying in 2024.

All right. With some of the discounts we're seeing, of course, accounting for the headwinds that we're going to face over the next year or two, it might be survive till 26, right? We're hoping 25. And obviously needing to be well capitalized to get through. But we don't look at these deals on a one to two year basis. We look at them on a projected five year hold and can necessarily hold them longer if we need to. But with the opportunity that's here right now and the basis that we can

DJE Texas (16:41.902)
pick up these deals at as long as we're underwriting them correctly and know what they're doing. I'm very, I'm very bullish about a multifamily here in DFW. And that's really what I'm doing right now is, is meeting with people and finding the right partners to, to, to get out there here and take advantage of the opportunity that's, that's here in 24. I agree. It's incredible to see, uh, how many, how few buyers there are at the table. And I'm telling my team guys, you know,

You remember not long ago, there's six groups getting into best and final 10 groups bidding, you know, that was not that long ago. That is a recent memory. And now, you know, we're brokers are telling us, do you have anything that makes sense? You know, we're the only group bidding on a deal and it's like, this is an unheard of and it's not going to last. Um, and, and the basis we're seeing on some of these is also not going to last. So obviously you've got a

capital stack to contend with on the other side of that. I'd like to talk about your latest deal. You know, 19K a door. That's pretty awesome. You know, I don't know how instructive that is to anybody in 2024. So I would love to kind of fast forward to your most recent deal. You guys closed what in the last couple of weeks? We did. We just closed on the 16th. So six days ago. Excellent. Excellent. And this is a partnership here in DFW.

I've played on the last couple of years, just to be honest, and I'm very transparent about this with my investors. I've been in more of a consulting role. I'm not necessarily one of the lead guys, but that's changing in 24. And that's why I'm engaging with partners now, because I want to get back into doing what I was doing from 2012 through 2021. And that's being one of the frontline guys on a transaction. With that being transparently said,

I was on board and informing the vision for the property. We have a great team. It's 195 unit. It's C -class, sub market in Hearst, Ulysses, Bedford, mid cities of Dallas, which is between Dallas and Fort Worth for those that aren't familiar with the area. We were able to negotiate a one million further retrade right before closing. So we were able to pick up this property at a basis of just shy of a hundred K a door.

DJE Texas (18:59.662)
And this is a C -class sub -market where the median income is 61K plus within a mile, which is obviously not your typical C -class sub -market. 72K plus within three miles. As with all of my properties, we're not looking to come in and be the first one on the block to prove out something. So all we have to do really, it's a occupancy play.

and it's coming in and just doing what's already been achieved in the in the sub market by comparable properties. This property was mismanaged, had an owner that was not taking care of the property sufficiently. So we're going to obviously come in and do that and have a great rehab budget that we're going to come in and apply a lot of TLC to this property and just bring it up to the standard of what's already taking place in the sub market. So.

I think it's going to be an absolute grand slam, especially with the Basis that we picked it up at. And we have a really good team, so excited to get to work with them and play any role I can to help us provide great returns for all of our investors. Yeah, that's great. Sounds like a conservative play. And you said it, Basis. I mean, that's just kind of the name of the game right now. How did you guys go about putting the capital stack together? Is it one bank loan and one?

class of equity on top? Is it more complex than that? Well, we looked at some different models. I'm not going to lie, raising capital now is hard, even though the opportunity is here now, just like we talked about when I'm reaching out to my investor database, some of them are in deals. They just don't have the money to invest now. Some have heard the few horror stories that take place that even though they're a very small piece of what's going on out there,

They hear those stories and it kind of puts them on the sidelines. So I think that's a case of just having conversations with investors and letting them know there's always that lag effect, right? I was listening to a podcast the other day. It's accurate. Sure. End up in the business journal or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. So, you mentioned a few minutes ago, like 21 and 22. And when you started having to put the bridge debt on loans and it was the only way to play the game,

DJE Texas (21:23.118)
Um, I kind of got very cautious and, um, kind of sat back. There had to be a great story or the ability to pick up a deal at a great basis. I did a few deals over the last few years, as I said, but I, I exercise great caution when everybody was all in. And like you said, there was multiple offers and everything was being bought at the top of the market and 15 factors had to fall right for the deal to make sense. Um, and then everybody was in, right? But now everybody is, uh,

is not in, but now's the time when the opportunity is here. So there had to be a market reset. I was telling people that for a while. I was like, we're going to have a market reset here. And then the reset happens and people don't necessarily like it, but it had to happen. Well, these are the prices we've been waiting for, for years upon years. And it just, you're never going to get all the green lights. I mean, rates are crazy, but

prices. This is a special window that we have right now. And it was interesting how it you know, these cycles tend to be 810 years and that last cycle had gotten pretty long in the tooth and then COVID kind of kept the kept the body alive for a little bit longer. So we were certainly due to your point. But but it is the it is an opportunity right now. I'm with you on that. I mean, we were never really pencils down. We're always looking at deals, but the

Like I said, the basis on some of the stuff we're seeing is like, you got to be kidding me. We can get this stuff for eighties, nineties, a hundred a door that I have no doubt will trade at 130 a door in a handful of years. Right. Absolutely. It's, it's interesting. It's just trying to try to make the capital stack work. And that's obviously the challenge. I want to talk a little bit about DFW. I'm in San Antonio and San Antonio is definitely a small market compared to DFW. You know, there's probably five.

brokers that we do all the deals with. What is it like in DFW? Is there, are you building relationships with 50 brokers? Is there, what's the deal flow look like? I know it's just a completely different market and that one that I, you know, have not done a deal in what maybe you could just give the audience a, the lay of the land at DFW. Yeah. Like any market, there tends to be 5 % of the brokers that are doing 95 % of the business that might be off a percentage point or two.

DJE Texas (23:50.638)
And then the other 95 % are doing 5 % of the business. I've done a lot of business over the years with some of the top brokers in DFW. From 2013 to 2015, I was able to work on the buyer brokerage side of the business for a mentoring program that I was plugged in with at the time. I had two syndication deals, my first two, the 90 unit and then 116 unit in Irving, Texas.

And I had the opportunity to come aboard with a mentoring program and work in buyer brokerage. It was always going to be a means to an end because I wanted to be a deal sponsor and apartment investor. And I already was at that time, but gave me the opportunity to earn some income. And more importantly, it gave me the opportunity to get a lot of experience, to see underwriting and to put my feet on a lot of deals, but really to build.

good relationships, strong relationships with that 5 % of brokers, mostly that were doing 95 % of the business. And I've been able to do that. Traveled with some of these guys, attended a lot of events, sporting events, concerts, and just had the opportunity to get to know them over the years, which really serves me well. When all things being considered, I know there was many times when there were multiple offers in a situation.

And I was, I was able to, I think, position myself with the broker to, to be the winning offer, all things being apples to apples that they would really speak strongly to me, uh, to, to the seller. And that, that pushed, I think some deals my way. Um, so I focused mainly on, on keeping those relationships strong, but obviously there, there are other brokers out there, but, um, I think that the best, that my best use of my time when I'm talking to brokers is to talk to those top 5 % of the guys.

I know they're not going to waste my time and they know how I work. Sure. Sure. They know. And I think they like to work with me because I'm a guy that does what I say I'm going to do. And I'm also not a guy that's going to say something that he's not going to do, which I think is just as important. So if I give my word that I'm going to get something done, if I engage, I'm going to close a pro I'm going to close a project. I'm going to raise the money. I'm going to do what, whatever needs to get done to, to follow through. So I've been able to really build strong broker relationships.

DJE Texas (26:08.718)
which I think positions me well here now for this opportunity in 2024. Yeah, it's an irreplaceable advantage that can't be created overnight. This is a multi -year deal, your track record and your relationships, and it really becomes an unfair advantage at that point, which is perfect. It's what you want. It's what your investors want you to have. So it makes sense.

Given your vantage point now, what would you tell yourself, and I guess also maybe an aspiring operator that's starting out, what would you tell yourself when you were starting out, given the special vantage point and experience that you have at this point? Well, looking back from 2012 through...

Uh, 2018 or 19, I'd probably buy just about everything in sight here in DFW, but not, not withstanding that, um, obviously we, we, we use the information that we have any given time to make the best decisions, um, that, that we can at any given time. And that's what we have to do. So, um, I would probably tell myself just to, to really trust my instincts. Obviously you got to follow the data. You got to follow the science of apartment investing.

Um, first and foremost, but, um, I think that I've, I've honed some really good instincts over the years, um, whether it's deals or, um, partnerships with people. And one thing I've learned now is to trust those instincts. And as I said before, I've done 14 GP deals in 11 years, which by some standard, like I said, is a very slow and steady track. But for me to move forward on a project, I have to feel right about everything, Devin. Um,

And I'm not talking about like on maybe on your first or second deal, because you mentioned aspiring GPs. Obviously there might be that, that little bit of fear that's about pulling the trigger for the first time on something major like this. And I had that too in the beginning, but I don't, I don't have that anymore. So I'm not talking about that, but I'm talking about really not moving forward with something because it might be lucrative, but you don't feel right about the partnerships. I've seen too many partnerships blow up.

DJE Texas (28:21.068)
that ends up being bad for everybody that's involved in the investment. And I never wanted to be part of that and I never have. So I think it's just trusting your instincts around everything about the deal. Do you feel good or great about the deal? Do you feel great about the underwriting, the sub market, the market, and perhaps most importantly, the partners that you're partnering with on that project? Yeah, that's great. That's that's great advice. I couldn't agree more.

You've had hundreds, maybe thousands of conversations with your passive investors, limited partners and prospective passive partners. What do you tell that person that's maybe listening and exploring, just hearing about syndications or private placements, this is all new, and they're trying to dip their toe in the water, maybe get into this as an LP. What do you tell that person? Well,

I tell them to certainly educate themselves and find out what it is that you want to look for in a sponsor. Obviously experience. We talked about track record success leaves clues and it does take it takes time obviously to build a reputation over time. So you want to especially in these last few years like we said a lot of people came into the industry. And you know I.

I've been on both sides of the table with some of these people and I wouldn't want to invest with some of these people. And so I think you really need to be prudent on who it is that you invest with. So certainly invest in your education enough to understand and be able to look at a project and not just take the word of the sponsor. Is this a good deal and why is it a good deal? And you have to have the fundamental multifamily knowledge to understand that.

mentoring and education programs or they were a great start for me and they might be for other people. And obviously today there's probably more great information just available at the touch of our fingertips than ever has been around multifamily investing. So people can just educate themselves more easily than they certainly could when I came into the business back in 2011, but really, you know, get to know the sponsors and get to know the teams, talk to their investors.

DJE Texas (30:36.526)
I think you'll probably put up a link later for my website, Aaron Katz, apartment investing .com. And I have a lot of great information on there that anybody can go check out just in general around multifamily. Uh, people can download a free report on why it's a solid investment and a lot of other great information, but perhaps my favorite thing there is I just reached out to my investor database. A lot of people that have repeatedly invested with me and some for more than 10 years.

And I just asked them for their honest words. And then I took them, I didn't edit them and I shared a lot of them and they're on my website at Aaron Katz, apartmentinvesting .com. So I think that that might be the most important if somebody is new to the game and looking, talk to or hear from other people that have invested with certain sponsors and hear what their experiences have been like. I love it. Yeah, that's, that's great. And there are certainly more resources now than ever before, which is.

which is great. Zooming out from apartment investing a little bit, what has this allowed you to do with your life? I mean, this is, you know, we don't get in this because we love vinyl plank flooring and two -tone paint schemes or whatever else we're doing in these units. Maybe we do a little bit, but there's more to life than that. What has being in this business done for, I guess, you know, your lifestyle and freedom and those kinds of things?

Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that because when I came into the business, I looked at it as a lifestyle business. I thought here's a business. I can take my prior business skill set and background and bring it over here. But while I'm creating and building wealth, it's going to enjoy me to, to, to enjoy life now because you're leveraging and working with systems and teams and vendors.

And, uh, if, if you follow it the way that I was taught, I mean, the first mentoring and education group that I joined here in DFW was called lifestyles unlimited. Sure. The name lifestyle was inherent in there that if you followed that model and did it, that you could enjoy, um, a great lifestyle. So, and that's kind of what I've done. And that's probably part of my slow and steady process. I've done 14 deals, but I could have done 50 over the years. Sure. But then.

DJE Texas (32:56.59)
And maybe I'd have an extra zero at the end of my net worth if I had done that, but it wouldn't have afforded me the ability to enjoy life now to create experiences with family, friends and loved ones, making memories. Sure. There's a lot of hard work involved, but I'm also able to set aside time to step away and, and, um, still serve my investors and serve those projects, but to in.

enjoy life now. So that was something that I decided was going to be a priority right out of the gate in 2011, Devin. And I see people in this business that apartment investing doesn't become something that serves their life. Apartment investing becomes their life. And more power to them if that's what juices them. I'm not judging anybody else. But for me, apartment investing was going to be a means to an end where I could grow and build and create wealth.

and provide what I wanted for my family. And I also get the great privilege of helping a lot of others to place their faith and trust in me. But I was never going to sacrifice some of those lifestyle goals. And I think I found a great balance over the years because I think the proof's in the pudding. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I really like the approach that you've taken. And I think it's clearly served you well and will continue into the future. And at some point, I mean, a...

the net worth and the financial component that can be derived from this business is great, but it's really just kind of one component. You're not going to add a bunch of zeros in your bank account at the expense of your health if you can help it or at the expense of relationships. So it's truly a balancing act, but it is a great avenue that can propel all those other health and family and travel and all those things. Sure. And those things are all...

important to me. I've made a lot of great strides in health just over the last few years, changed the way I've I've eat, I have some passions and hobbies that are of great interest to me. Anybody can also find me on Facebook. I'm pretty transparent about who I am and the life I live on Facebook with the theory being there that when I also came into this business, I just wanted people to know who I am. Right. And all of me because I believe that this is a business where people invest and do business with people they know, like and trust.

DJE Texas (35:17.998)
And I think the key component there and the first word is they have to know who you are. Right. And maybe some people I'm going to be their cup of tea and maybe not. And that's okay too. But I want to be transparent. I'm transparent in my communication with my partners. I'm transparent and open and honest in my communication with investors and the business affords me. It's not putting on a show. It's, it's, I'm, I'm just going to be real and, and be authentic and grow the business that way. And I've done that now for.

12 plus years and I think it served me well. Yeah, I love it. Well, thanks for sharing that. Well, we mentioned the website, but let's kind of wrap it up with that, Aaron. If somebody's listening and they want to connect with you, where should we send them? To just go to Aaron Katz, apartmentinvesting .com. They'll have the opportunity to see some great information there. They can download a free report on top seven reasons multifamily is a solid investment.

some great blog stuff I have on there. Why 2024 is a great time to invest. We're back filling reserves on that current multifamily project, even though we closed on February 16th. I don't know exactly when this podcast will air, but it's a 506C and there might be an opportunity. If it's still up there, when people see they might even have the opportunity to get in on that deal that we just closed and put their money to work immediately if they desire in that two property portfolio.

the passive investor testimonials, and maybe most importantly, they can join my investor community there, have an opportunity to sign up, and then I'll follow up with them and establish some communication and begin to build that relationship where I'll be able to offer them future passive investing opportunities as well at erincatsapartmentinvesting .com. Perfect. We'll link to that in the show notes. If you're listening, you can scroll through brief description and there'll be a link right there that you can click through, not while you're driving, but it's right there in the

in the podcast episode. So click through and connect with with Aaron. Aaron, thank you so much. This was great to catch up. Love to see your successes and we're friends on Facebook and you know your adventures. And so it's just I think you've got a great approach. You're very, very well regarded in the industry and I wish you a great 2024. Thanks for coming on the show. Yeah, very much so. Hey, real quick as an aside, one of my passions, Devin, is I'm a big music fan. So you still playing guitar? Absolutely, yeah.

DJE Texas (37:46.67)
Yeah. Every day. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I've seen that. That's fantastic. That definitely caught my eye being a big music fan. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good escape for me. And I've been meaning, I got this podcast to be meeting to record some songs and post them. I just keeps ended up on the, on the back burner, but I'll put some more stuff out there soon. You got to do the theme song for this podcast. That's not a bad idea. There you go. All right. Thanks for the time. This has been awesome, Devin. Thanks for a great conversation today.

Thanks so much, Aaron. Take care.